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Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
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calvero
Director
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 1167
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 Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
new Sight & Sound list is out, Vertigo topped Kane by a large margin. And Tokyo Story topped Kane in the directors poll. who would've thunk it? I didn't think this was ever possible 20 years ago(Kane finishing lower than 1 in either list) looks like the much larger group of voters this year may have been a factor(though Vertigo was pretty close behind Kane in '02) This year they counted Godfather & Godfather II as two separate films, while in 2002 they counted them as one. That explains the drop in this list(in '02 they held the #4 spot, this year Godfather was 21 & Godfather II was 31)  |  |  |  | Quote: LONDON – Orson Welles' Citizen Kane no longer enjoys the moniker of greatest film of all time, a plaudit it has held for 50 years.
The movie has occupied top billing in the British Film Institute published magazine Sight & Sound's once-a-decade international critics’ film poll since 1962.
But that crown, according to Sight & Sound's 2012 survey of 846 movie experts who participate, has now passed to Alfred Hitchcock’s Vertigo.
Made in 1958, the psychological suspense drama first entered the Sight & Sound poll in 1982 in seventh place -- two years after its director died. Largely ignored by the critics for most of his career, its rise in the poll is testament to how Hitchcock’s reputation has steadily increased over time.
Starring Kim Novak and James Stewart, Vertigo trumped Citizen Kane by 34 votes this time around; it was five votes shy of Kane 10 years ago.
And 1941's Kane, second in the survey, also missed out on the top spot in a separate poll of 358 film directors from all over the world, including Martin Scorsese, Quentin Tarantino, Francis Ford Coppola, Woody Allen and Mike Leigh, whose survey chose Yasujiro Ozu’s Tokyo Story (1953) as its greatest.
The critics poll, first conducted in 1952, marks the magazine's seventh and its most ambitious to date.
The 10-yearly survey aims to rule out fluctuations in taste and asks participants to interpret "greatest" in any way they chose.
That could mean whether the film was most important to film history, represented the aesthetic pinnacle of achievement or perhaps had a personal impact on their own view of cinema.
This year’s poll sample of 846 film critics, academics, distributors, writers and programmers from all corners of the globe was the biggest ever. They voted for 2,045 movie titles overall.
That compares with the 144 that were asked 10 years ago.
The pollsters said the huge increase in numbers "reflects the impact of the Internet and proliferation and increased influence of film commentators using this new medium."
Another fallout from this year's top 10 is Sergei Eisenstein's Battleship Potemkin, a 1925 film that has appeared in the top 10 for all of the poll's 60 years in various slots.
Three silent films make 2012's top 10 -- Dziga Vertov’s documentary Man With a Movie Camera (1929) is a new addition, while 1927's Sunrise, directed by F.W. Murnau, moves up to fifth and The Passion of Joan of Arc re-enters – ousting Eisenstein's picture.
Organizers said the changes might be explained by the availability of the films on DVD and the resurgence in popularity in recent years for different kinds of live accompaniment to the films, from The Alloy Orchestra and Michael Nyman to prog rock.
Ozu’s Tokyo Story is in third spot and Jean Renoir’s La Règle du jeu (1939) occupies fourth.
Vertov’s film is the first documentary to make the top 10 since 1952.
Carl Theodor Dreyer’s The Passion of Joan of Arc (1927) is ninth, while the most recent film in the top 10 is Stanley Kubrick’s 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) in sixth place. John Ford's The Searchers (1956) hits the seventh spot while Federico Fellini's 8 1/2 (1963) lies 10th.
The Critics’ Top 10 Greatest Films of All Time
1) "Vertigo" (Alfred Hitchcock, 1958) 2) "Citizen Kane" (Orson Welles, 1941) 3) "Tokyo Story" (Yasujiro Ozo, 1953) 4) "Rules of the Game" (Jean Renoir, 1939) 5) "Sunrise" (F.W. Murnau, 1927) 6) "2001: A Space Odyssey" (Stanley Kubrick, 1968) 7) "The Searchers" (John Ford, 1956) 8) "Man with a Movie Camera" (Dziga Vertov, 1929) 9) "The Passion of Joan of Arc" (Carl Theodor Dreyer, 1928) 10) "8 1/2" (Federico Fellini, 1963)
The Directors’ Top 10 Greatest Films of All Time
1) "Tokyo Story" (Ozu, 1953) 2) "2001: A Space Odyssey" (Kubrick, 1968), "Citizen Kane" (Welles, 1941) [tie] 4) "8 ½" (Fellini, 1963) 5) "Taxi Driver" (Martin Scorsese, 1980) 6) "Apocalypse Now" (Francis Ford Coppola, 1979) 7) "The Godfather" (Coppola, 1972), "Vertigo" (Hitchcock, 1958) [tie] 9) "Mirror" (Andrei Tarkovsky, 1974) 10) "Bicycle Thieves" (Vittorio De Sica, 1948)
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would love to see a reelthoughts about this, I'm sure Ebert is preparing something.
Last edited by calvero on Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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| Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:10 pm |
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JamesKunz
Critic
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 5888 Location: Easton, MD
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Man with a Video Camera? Jesus Christ that movie is like a film school experiment. I like the directors' list more
_________________ I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger
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| Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:22 pm |
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calvero
Director
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 1167
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Sight & Sound hasn't updated their site yet with the features it had in '02(you could see every person that voted for a title, see what ballot every critic/director submitted) but here is the rest of the critics top 50 they posted 11. Battleship Potemkin Sergei Eisenstein, 1925 (63 votes) 12. L’Atalante Jean Vigo, 1934 (58 votes) 13. Breathless Jean-Luc Godard, 1960 (57 votes) 14. Apocalypse Now Francis Ford Coppola, 1979 (53 votes) 15. Late Spring Ozu Yasujiro, 1949 (50 votes) 16. Au hasard Balthazar Robert Bresson, 1966 (49 votes) 17= Seven Samurai Kurosawa Akira, 1954 (48 votes) 17= Persona Ingmar Bergman, 1966 (48 votes) 19. Mirror Andrei Tarkovsky, 1974 (47 votes) 20. Singin’ in the Rain Stanley Donen & Gene Kelly, 1951 (46 votes) 21= L’avventura Michelangelo Antonioni, 1960 (43 votes) 21= Le Mépris Jean-Luc Godard, 1963 (43 votes) 21= The Godfather Francis Ford Coppola, 1972 (43 votes) 24= Ordet Carl Dreyer, 1955 (42 votes) 24= In the Mood for Love Wong Kar-Wai, 2000 (42 votes) 26= Rashomon Kurosawa Akira, 1950 (41 votes) 26= Andrei Rublev Andrei Tarkovsky, 1966 (41 votes) 28. Mulholland Dr. David Lynch, 2001 (40 votes) 29= Stalker Andrei Tarkovsky, 1979 (39 votes) 29= Shoah Claude Lanzmann, 1985 (39 votes) 31= The Godfather Part II Francis Ford Coppola, 1974 (38 votes) 31= Taxi Driver Martin Scorsese, 1976 (38 votes) 33. Bicycle Thieves Vittoria De Sica, 1948 (37 votes) 34. The General Buster Keaton & Clyde Bruckman, 1926 (35 votes) 35= Metropolis Fritz Lang, 1927 (34 votes) 35= Psycho Alfred Hitchcock, 1960 (34 votes) 35= Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce 1080 Bruxelles Chantal Akerman, 1975 (34 votes) 35= Sátántangó Béla Tarr, 1994 (34 votes) 39= The 400 Blows François Truffaut, 1959 (33 votes) 39= La dolce vita Federico Fellini, 1960 (33 votes) 41. Journey to Italy Roberto Rossellini, 1954 (32 votes) 42= Pather Panchali Satyajit Ray, 1955 (31 votes) 42= Some Like It Hot Billy Wilder, 1959 (31 votes) 42= Gertrud Carl Dreyer, 1964 (31 votes) 42= Pierrot le fou Jean-Luc Godard, 1965 (31 votes) 42= Play Time Jacques Tati, 1967 (31 votes) 42= Close-Up Abbas Kiarostami, 1990 (31 votes) 48= The Battle of Algiers Gillo Pontecorvo, 1966 (30 votes) 48= Histoire(s) du cinéma Jean-Luc Godard, 1998 (30 votes) 50= City Lights Charlie Chaplin, 1931 (29 votes) 50= Ugetsu monogatari Mizoguchi Kenji, 1953 (29 votes) 50= La Jetée Chris Marker, 1962 (29 votes) http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/50-greatest-films-all-time
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| Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:58 pm |
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H.I. McDonough
Assistant Director
Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pm Posts: 916
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
"Vertigo" is quickly joining "GoodFellas" as my choice for most overrated film of all time. Honestly, apart from the title sequence and the dream sequence, I don't see what's so special about it. Yes, like all of Hitchcock's films, it's technically flawless... but technique alone can't completely endear one to a film. And I still have trouble buying Scottie's transformation into an obsessive creep (it's Jimmy Stewart, for fuck's sake! The guy couldn't be unpleasant if he tried!) 
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| Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:53 pm |
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Robert Holloway
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Told ya  Rob
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:54 am |
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Syd Henderson
Director
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:35 am Posts: 1455
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Vertigo isn't even Hitchcock's best film. Man with a Movie Camera seems like an odd choice. I've never seen The Searchers. The other seven are solid films, although 2001 leaves me a bit cold.
I'm a little surprised to see Tokyo Story top the directors' list, but I notice Ebert writing about how he'll select one film by Hitchcock or one by Kurosawa, and the Ozu consensus centers around Tokyo Story. It's certainly a very well directed film.
The directors need to see more silent films. I have two silent films in my top 10 list and they're the same two the critics have, but I have The Passion of Joan of Arc higher than Sunrise.
_________________ Evil does not wear a bonnet!--Mr. Tinkles
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:57 am |
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Ken
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Ebert says a few words about it.And here's a piece by Jim Emerson, written on the eve of the list's release and a few additional words appended about the new list itself.Personally, there are several films that I consider to be better than Vertigo, and Citizen Kane is one of them. That said, I've seen Kane many more times and I'm much more familiar with it both as a film and as a significant guidepost of cinematic history. This may be a good time to study up on Hitchcock's mad masterpiece.
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:27 am |
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Ken
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 3:48 am |
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PeachyPete
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
It's brilliant, but I can't say I'm the least bit surprised you aren't it's biggest fan. As for Vertigo, I agree with what Ebert said about not seeing the movie's greatness: "You're insufficiently evolved as a moviegoer."
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 9:33 am |
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calvero
Director
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 1167
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
This is a bigger surprise to me than Vertigo topping the critics list(since it came very close to doing that in 2002) The directors list only started in '92, but Kane topped it by a large margin that year & in '02 as well. And Tokyo Story wasn't even in the top 10 in the directors list those years! I wouldn't be surprised if Tokyo Story topped the critics list as well in '22, its pattern is sort of similar to Vertigo(Tokyo Story only got on the list in '92, it now is a staple there near the top, and judging by its place on the directors list, its stature is still growing. '82 was the first year Vertigo got on the list, and it became the consenus 'best' Hitchcock film, like Story became the consensus best Ozu in '92) not sure how I feel about S&S expanding their voting base so much this year (going from 144 to 846 is a bit extreme imo, I kinda liked how selective they were, in a way it made the list even more of a bigger deal. I can imagine it will be an even higher number of voters in 2022 - maybe JB will get a vote then as well) The list also shows how divided voters were on whether Godfather 1 or Godfather 2 was better(combined it would have been near the top of the list, like they did in '02)
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:14 pm |
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SketchesbyBoze
Gaffer
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:22 pm Posts: 10
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
This is amazing. I've long thought "Vertigo" was the superior film. It's been my favorite movie since I was ten years old - along with "The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers."
This has been a very good week for movies : D
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 12:31 pm |
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bob harris
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
We had a lot of great discussion around this list a few years back...lots of new faces since then. Would love to see people start tackling the list and adding their thoughts. Some truly great films. And of course the list isn't perfect, none ever is but it's a great "water cooler" list for films fans like us to start debating the films. Anyone up for digging a little deeper again?
And dear Mr. Holloway, I'm sure you couldn't wait to celebrate. I fell in love with Vertigo as the behest of you sir, so I'm not all that disappointed, even if the film may not have been my personal choice.
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 7:14 pm |
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CasualDad
Second Unit Director
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 6:19 pm Posts: 349
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
I love The Searchersand think its a great movie, but even a John Wayne fan like me couldn't put it in the top 20. That ranking surprises me.
Not that I care who's number 1, but I like Kane better than Vertigo by quite a bit. I haven't ever seen Tokyo Story.
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| Thu Aug 02, 2012 8:17 pm |
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MGamesCook
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
I think Kane is more accomplished than Vertigo on every level, including an entertainment level. I don't even consider Vertigo the best movie of 1958, or even the 2nd best movie of 1958. The problem with Vertigo is that it assumes the viewer will be completely taken in by the intensity of Stewart's trauma. Personally, I have yet to meet anyone who can take it all that seriously, except as pulp.
And Tokyo Story is long, long, overlong, long, and way too long. I've seen at least 4 Ozus that are far, far superior. I think canonization doesn't celebrate greatness so much as distort it. The sight and sound list may be more dignified than, say, the imdb 250, but it seems just as lazy and pointless to me.
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:06 am |
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JamesKunz
Critic
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 5888 Location: Easton, MD
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
 |  |  |  | MGamesCook wrote: I think Kane is more accomplished than Vertigo on every level, including an entertainment level. I don't even consider Vertigo the best movie of 1958, or even the 2nd best movie of 1958. The problem with Vertigo is that it assumes the viewer will be completely taken in by the intensity of Stewart's trauma. Personally, I have yet to meet anyone who can take it all that seriously, except as pulp.
And Tokyo Story is long, long, overlong, long, and way too long. I've seen at least 4 Ozus that are far, far superior. I think canonization doesn't celebrate greatness so much as distort it. The sight and sound list may be more dignified than, say, the imdb 250, but it seems just as lazy and pointless to me. |  |  |  |  |
Pointless? Come on man, lists are fun!
_________________ I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:09 am |
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MGamesCook
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Lists are great when they're useful guides; Sight and Sound just tells us what we already knew. What if there was a rule that no movie could make the list over two consecutive decades? Now that would be interesting.
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:18 am |
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JamesKunz
Critic
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 5888 Location: Easton, MD
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
The lists change a great deal, and thus are a good way to track certain films' rise and fall in peoples' esteem
_________________ I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:59 am |
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dps
Assistant Second Unit Director
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:49 pm Posts: 168
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
Put me in the "I don't even think Vertigo is Hitchcock's best movie" group.
I think Lifeboat may actually be his best, though it's been so long since I've seen it I hesitate to be too definative about it.
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:18 am |
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JamesKunz
Critic
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:35 am Posts: 5888 Location: Easton, MD
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
I'm with you on the first statement sometimes, but I don't think I would ever say Lifeboat
_________________ I'm lithe and fierce as a tiger
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:58 am |
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calvero
Director
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:44 pm Posts: 1167
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 Re: Vertigo tops Citizen Kane!
if you break down the numbers, there was actually a great amount of variety in the list. the full list just hasn't been released yet. there were 2,045 different movies that got votes. 846 people submitted ballots. Vertigo was on 191 ballots. That means 655 of the people they polled didn't even have it on their ballot(by the end of the month you'll be able to see every ballot, & every film that was voted for). That's hardly a 'resounding' victory for the greatest film of all time(if you want to view this whole thing that way) And Tokyo Story got 48 votes from directors, putting it at the top of their list. 358 directors voted. So 310 directors didn't even have it on their ballot. looking forward to seeing what Woody Allen, Quentin Tarantino, Guillermo del Toro, Martin Scorsese, Michael Mann, Francis Ford Coppola, Mike Leigh voted for, I'm sure there will be some lesser known gems among them.
Last edited by calvero on Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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| Fri Aug 03, 2012 4:01 pm |
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